Wichita Atheists Message Board › Religion in the News
| Ga'kuct | |
|
|
The latest group, Hutaree Christian militia, is making the news around the country. As quickly as the arrest of this group for allegedly plotting to kill police officers, Christian groups and leaders denounce their actions and beliefs as "un-Christ like" and "not the teaching of Christianity", and, my favorite, "They are not true Christians". One only needs to read the Bible to discover that these Christians are just doing as the Bible tells them...according to their interpretations, literal and made up. There are many (way too many, in my opinion) that think groups, like Hutaree, are doing the right thing, they are doing god's work. It scares me. The sad, sad reality is this group is more like the followers of the God of Abraham then most moderate Christians. It seems to me, that groups like this are closer to mainstream in Islamic cultures. I would say that scares the hell out of me, if I believed there is a hell.
I don't understand why the church, or the leaders of what ever sect of Christianity(and Islam for that matter) these groups claim to be part of, don't officially denounce or excommunicate these violent groups. When someone says "Christian values" I think of Fred Phelps. When someone says Islam, I think of a suicide bomber. Both sides(the blow-'em-uppers and the turn-the-other-cheekers) use their holy books for justifications of their actions. One could say that one side is right and the other side is wrong, or the Bible is being misinterpreted; I say all three have major issues. I did a Google search on the Hutaree and got a good chuckle from the "That's not my Jesus" crowd. And I should offer a solution to the problem (this one is easy)- Education, not indoctrination. The next meet-up is Zombie Jesus day. If the dead do arise, we can take refuge in Town East, like in Dawn of the Dead. |
| Jamar | |
|
|
The bible tells of how Jesus still had his old wounds from the cross, and they were still fresh. So maybe Jesus really was just like a zombie. But wouldn't that just freak people out? Being the son of a god you think he could have fixed himself up a bit . After all he did that for others why not himself?
|
| Matt a.k.a. Stacey | |
|
|
As Matt Dillahunty of "The Atheist Experience" is fond of saying, the Bible is the big book of multiple choice. Pick what you want to believe, and you can find it in the Bible. In this case, we have the apocalyptic acid trip of Revelation, which was the apparent inspiration for the Hutaree, versus passages like 1 Peter 2:12-17, which says:
"Conduct yourselves honorably among the Gentiles, so that, though they malign you as evildoers, they may see your honorable deeds and glorify God when he comes to judge. "For the Lord’s sake accept the authority of every human institution, whether of the emperor as supreme, or of governors, as sent by him to punish those who do wrong and to praise those who do right. For it is God’s will that by doing right you should silence the ignorance of the foolish. As servants of God, live as free people, yet do not use your freedom as a pretext for evil. Honor everyone. Love the family of believers. Fear God. Honor the emperor." |
| Ga'kuct | |
|
|
The Atheist Experience is quickly becoming one of my favorite shows after discovering it just a month or so ago.
...on the eighth day, God -oops, I mean- Al Gore, created the internet, and it was good. Interesting article in the paper today about folks accusing the Pope of failing to protect children from abusive priests. Nice quote for Cardinal Angelo Sodano, dean of the College of Cardinals,"Holy Father, on your side are the people of God, who do not allow themselves to be influenced by the petty gossip of the moment, by the trials which sometimes buffet the community of believers." I had to read this a couple of times. "Petty Gossip"? Really?!? The hundreds of folks who have come forward(not to mention the many more that haven't spoken) are just making gossip?? I can recall hearing the same situation happening in several countries. Seems to me this ass-hat(I don't care how tall his hat is) is disconnected from the real world. Then I remember that, yes, in fact this guy believes in the magic man in the sky. "...of the moment..."??? I wonder if is referring to other moments of "petty gossip" through the years, like the Spanish Inquisition, Crusades, and Indulgences? Will this round of petty gossip will last as long as the Inquisition? To be fair, there is a positive article about several area churches helping to provide shoes for children in need. Then I read about how the pastor asked everyone use their cell phones to pledge $10 to the company, Samaritan's Feet, a non-profit organization, in Charlotte, N.C. I bet the church and god will get all the credit for donating to this cause. It's a shame that the people, who gave their money, won't get any the credit they deserve. |
| A former member | |
|
|
I bet the church and god will get all the credit for donating to this cause. It's a shame that the people, who gave their money, won't get any the credit they deserve. To be fair, it's certainly not just churches that do things like this- there are plenty of other social organizations that pool donations from their members to turn over to charity in order to make a bigger impact. The alternative would be naming each and every donor for their contribution, which I think kind of dampens the 'noble spirit of giving', so to speak, in the first place. This just seems like a somewhat petty thing to go after. |
| Ga'kuct | |
|
|
Doesn't have to be a social organization to pool donations to give to charities. For example, the United Way comes to our work about once a year to do pledge drives and to thank us, as individuals, for contributing. Never heard the folks, from the United Way, "thank god" for our contributions, in fact they "thank each and everyone of you for your time and money".
The minister of these churches will gather everyone in prayer to thank god for the donations and thank god for giving shoes to those children in need. Even the child receiving shoes might thank god as well. No one snapped a picture of a god texting a donation of $10, nor are there any signs of a god making or handing out shoes. I'm not sure how god gets the credit for any of this. I cannot think of a single, positive thing that a religious institution does that cannot be done without the religion. In my opinion, giving all the credit to a god dampens that noble spirit of giving. I think people deserve a pat on the back when they do good things. Don't get me wrong, I think charity work is great, both for those giving(time and money) and those receiving. If you are down on your luck, getting kicked around, it can be a good uplifting feeling to know someone out there gives a crap about you as a person and wants to help. This is how religions snag up people. This can be done without religion. How do I know it can be done? Because I have done it. |
| Jamar | |
|
|
I can't fault religion much for using the charity tactic, and I think most "believers" sincerely practice charity with good intentions. What concerns me is false attribution. For example, at my work there is a guy who is always praising god for everything. I think we all know someone like that. One time he asked a committee I am on to look into getting a door fixed. When it was fixed he subsequently heaped all the thanks on his creator. I think this practice is more than annoying, but in fact dangerous. The work of doctors engineers and good samaritans is frequently credited to the divine, and not to those who deserve it. They say to "Give all the glory to god" and "There is nothing god hates more than pride". Whether it is inspired or not, doing good work takes work. My beef with religion isn't so much about the atrocities and generosities it has been associated with. Whats most important is that is has no valid claim to truthfulness. Anything religion has to offer, no matter how comforting or beneficial to the general welfare, I find paltry against the weight of self-worth and the honest pursuit of truth. When most religious people defend their faith they talk about how horrible it would be without god. "How can we have a just world without a deity?" "How can we live in comfort without the assurance that in the end someone will make it all right". (Note: whenever anyone tries to sell you something that will solve all your worries and make your dreams come true at a low low cost you need to be extra skeptical). I personally don't give a crap about this. To me goodness has more to do with trying than the end product. What is grander than an honest pursuit of truth? A search for whatever may be. Finding what you want won't make you a better person, making the most of reality will.
Edited by Jamar on Apr 14, 2010 9:29 PM |
| Matt a.k.a. Stacey | |
|
|
My opinion on the matter is that both actions and their motivations count, although the actions count for more. So I'm happy with religious charity, but I'm happier still with secular charity.
There actually are a few explicitly atheistic charity groups that basically bundle contributions to standard charities, the same way churches do. A couple that come to mind are the Foundation Beyond Belief, and the atheist group on Kiva. |