I think it's very disturbing how religious fanaticism is reaching a fever pitch - particularly among evangelical christians and certain islamic sects. I find it particularly disturbing that proselytizing has become so common place in the armed forces. When nations begin to play the "My god is better than your god" game, the end results usually don't end well - for both the folks that are directly and indirectly affected.

The danger of this activity has been documented by Mikey Weinstein and his organization "Military Freedom from Religion Foundation". There's a lot of good information on their website at: http://www.militaryre....

Also, when there are government officials and political candidates that stake their claim on the premise that our nation needs to follow the principles and guidelines laid out in the bible (Sharon Angle, Sarah Palin, etc.), many people don't realize that the bible is a very violent book! If we were to follow it literally, the majority of us would be dead!

As a government worker, I have noticed an increase in the disregard for the Separation of Church and State, as many official government meetings and events are being held in religious facilities like churches, and no one bats an eye! I particularly don't like it when they have prayer before a government meeting or event - it is very uncomfortable for me. Particularly in the African American community - where so much is tied into 'the church' - such as organizing community activities, planning neighborhood events, or even voting. The church I used to attend had a very active Social & Political Ministry - and I'm pretty sure that's illegal !

Bill Maher once commented that non-believers need to form a political action committee just like religious groups do to ensure that we have a voice and are represented when certain bills are presented on the legislative floor. Many non-believers disagreed, but I felt that it was a very good idea - considering the political and social environment we find ourselves in today!

What are your thoughts on this?

We don't have a PAC, but we do have Lori Lipman Brown and three other people registered as lobbyists in Washington, with the Secular Coalition for America. Beyond that, of course, we've got well-established organizations that help litigate to protect church/state separation. Americans United (national and local) and the Freedom From Religion Foundation, are a couple good examples that do great work.

Without knowing exactly what goes on with your former church's Social & Political Ministry, it's hard to know whether they're breaking the law. Churches are allowed to do social work, and to support political issues. They're not allowed to endorse candidates.

The Wichita Atheists can do whatever we want :-), since we pay taxes. :-( We're officially non-partisan, though. Atheists are a politically diverse bunch.

Since you mentioned prayer before government meetings, I'll mention that our own Michael Alldaffer gave the first secular invocation ever at a Wichita city council meeting last month. That, of course, made some Christians flip out, and the event was being written about in the Eagle for a week afterward.

Yes - I recall the invocation - and the resulting rhetoric from believers.

I'm not sure about the city, but I am aware that the county has had one of our departmental employees - who is Hindu - give an invocation at a BOCC meeting. We didn't get a lot of reaction from that, which did surprise me.

I actually visit the FFRF and AU websites often, and I really enjoy reading the articles and how they are truly protecting our rights as citizens - whether believers think they are part of whose being protected or not.

On the issue of endorsing political candidates - that can be tricky. There are ways to endorse without really endorsing...know what I mean? Showing positive videos of political candidates or negative videos of others - without outright saying that these are the candidates we do - or don't - support, can cross some lines. I'm not trying to go after anyone - by any means - but there are actions that I may question.

Has there been a group viewing of the Four Horsemen? I'm sure there has been, but I really enjoyed it, and was just wondering...

I'm not familiar with any film by that name. Is it something about the "New Atheist" authors? Dawkins, Dennett, Harris and Hitchens?

Matt--I looked The Four Horsemen up on Netflix, and I would definitely be interested in seeing it. I think you're right about it involving the "New Atheist" authors, and the Netflix description is of a discussion group/interview setting. I assume Sonni has seen it and would know.

There was a youtube video on Dawkins' channel called the Four Horsemen
http://www.youtube.co...
http://www.youtube.co...

I watched it when it was posted, but don't remember any specifics from it any more.

Changing political and governmental thinking is a long, slow process. One of the biggest obstacles to political reform are the people who like it as it is. Those are the ones in power. Often times political agendas are built upon nothing more but making sure nothing significantly changes. The parties of NO are really good at that. Within the last few decades we have seen woman, people of color and openly gay people become or maintain long term senatorial positions. This is a good start. An open free thinking individual will eventually be elected to a state or federal congressional position if enough people and organizations continue to keep the ones currently in power from dragging us backwards towards a theocracy.

Urban worship attendance is down, more and more churches are shutting doors and reopening as something other than a house of worship. The key is to spark as much doubt in as many believers as possible so they don't find themselves in a suburban mega church walking in a sheepish line, doing what their told without knowing what it is for. However, you can't break worship based tradition over night. As the early baby boomer's slowly live out their lives (I am a late baby boomer) and a younger, more open mindset become the majority voters, we should see a slow shift towards individual thought and sanity when it comes time to cast a vote. Campaigns like the ones we just endured from the Kansas Republicans must eventually become a forgotten sour taste.

When religious belief is no longer a foundation under who gets elected we will be ready to evolve into a more intellectual and peace loving people. Until then, most people in this state, will continue to vote for those who convince the masses they are the most conservative. As if that is something to be proud of.

This forum and others like it are the bedrock of creating a new house of belief and understanding based on honesty and reality. A political belief system that is minus party affiliation and worship is something to strive for. It will be a positive step forward when a openly non worship based candidate has a reasonable shot of being elected and does so on a platform of doing what is best for the majority first and any kind of party loyalty is second... if not non existent.

I agree

As a former believer, I've seen - and experienced first hand - how alluringly irresistible and mezmorizing mega-churches can be. It is an art - no, a science - and they have perfected the formula. It's like a high-tech rock show with laser beams and religious images whose sole purpose is to ready its congregants for war...literally.

Many believers are given a "take-no-prisoners" stance on social and political world affairs and issues, and believe it is not only their god given right - but their duty, their commission - to convert, save, or in some extreme case even kill, in the name of their god. Luke 19:27 states, "But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me." This scripture has been told to soldiers to justify the war(s) we now find ourselves in (see video by Mikey Weinstein on his website militaryreligiousfreedom.org).

I am an Army veteran serving over 9 years active duty and my son is currently serving in the middle east - and it scares me to think that our young people are being brainwashed into thinking that they are there to convert Muslims from Islam to Christianity! That's why I follow the Military Religious Freedom Foundation website: http://www.militaryre....

Unfortunatley - as history has shown us - thing's will probably get worse before they get better. America is the new kid on the block - relatively speaking - and other first-world nations have experienced what we're going through now. That's probably why many Christian American's refer to many European nations as "godless" (see any article on www.freerepublic.com - or just Google Godless Europe). They've 'been there' and 'done that', and have no interest in 'going back'! However, we do need to take into account that many of the younger generations are more susceptible to religious fanaticism since they are the the farthest removed from having any personal religious persecution account.

This is why - in my opinion - the most disturbing trend that I see is religious groups utilizing our armed forces to carry out a 'spiritual' agenda. I would love to see us get to that place - the place where we have a political system that is minus party affiliation and worship. I just worry about what may happen in the process of 'getting there'.

Yes, there is a race among human kind. Can we destroy ourselves before we run our natural course to inevitable extinction? I have commented before that I am in the process of recording a rock album about peace, the pursuit of peace and the obstacles that keep peace from occurring and maintaining. http://peaceofrock.ne... website will hopefully be up and running in early October and the album released by Halloween. I have written a song and a lead in paragraph that covers many of the issues we are currently discussing.

Our species has come a long way the last few thousand years and within the last couple of centuries we have made astronomical leaps forward in building bigger, better and more complicated things; Things that can leave this planet and go to another. While this may be the only planet we currently have, we as a species may very well find a new planet to inhabit one day. So the race is on. We have to stay at least partly at peace long enough to evolve into a more intellectually understanding species that appreciates and respects the planet and universe that gives us life. The computer I write this on, the clothes I am wearing, the house I am in, etc. are all here because of one basic natural occurrence. Fire. Without the achievement of capturing fire, everything we possess outside what is natural, would not be. We can give credit to something imaginary for all we have, or we can simply appreciate those early Humans (Homo Sapiens or Homo Neanderthalensis) or the possible interbred combination of both, for initially finding fire and then learning how to recreate it, keep it and use it. However there is an extremely dark side to learning how to create with fire. With the fire captured, it now seems inevitable that we would eventually tap into and pretend to control the most dangerous fire of all. Put the power of an atom splitting warhead into the hands of someone praying for guidance and justification while the button is pushed, is really quite a frightening, unfortunate reality. Everything that lives was destined to die the moment it came to be and the sun that warms us is no different. Nothing lasts forever and therefore neither can our planet. So the race is on. Out of greed, worship and denial, can we destroy our planets ability to support life as we currently know it, before it naturally comes to an end? We may all regret one day that we… learned to burn.

Learned to Burn


Long ago, fire was captured, which are we, the slave or master?
Without flame, we survived, with the blaze, we began to thrive.
Is no reason, there was no why, we got heat that fell from the sky.

We took a good turn, when we learned to burn.
Learned to burn, Learned to burn.
We took a good turn, once we learned to burn.

We’ve come far, since knowing its worth, made things, covered the Earth.
We tapped in, found its center, went in where, we shouldn’t have entered.
Controlling the power of fire and sun, may return us to where we begun.

May have set a term, when we learned to burn.
Learned to burn, Learned to burn.
May have set a term, once we learned to burn.

If not careful, with what we know, into darkness we all will go.
Must stop burning, the old life below, let us all continue to grow.
Life is here, there is no other, only this rock we haven’t another.

All might adjourn, now that we learned to burn.
Learned to burn, Learned to burn.
All might adjourn, now that we learned to burn.

Learned to burn, Learned to burn. May regret one day, that we learned to burn.

Without flame, we survived, with the blaze, we began to thrive.

Speaking of fire, the most recent Point of Inquiry podcast was about the idea that the invention of cooking preceded humanity, and actually made our species. Very interesting stuff.